Posts by Disillusioned JW

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, I don't see any problem between the apparent distance between the Earth and Moon in the two pictures posted by TD on page 15 of this topic thread. That is because when a person looks at objects, ones that are in space, from the vantage point of the Moon or the Earth it is very hard to judge the distance between the objects. That is because we don't see a series of objects between what is on Earth all the way to what is on the moon (or between whatever other orbs [such as stars, planets, or moons] in space we are looking at), and as a result we don't have much to guide our perspective vision to form an accurate interpretation of the distance between the objects.

For example, when I look up at the moon from my home and see trees in my neighborhood in the foreground, with the tree tops aligned directly in my line of sight with the Moon, it looks like the Moon is very close to the tree tops (but with the Moon looking very small though we know if is very large). It looks like the Moon in only an inch or centimeter away or less, but obviously the actual distance is vastly greater. It looks like I would be able to grab the Moon from the sky if I climbed the tree and reached out the Moon, yet we know I wouldn't be able to grab the Moon from any place on Earth.

Likewise if align directly in my sight the rooftop of my home with that of the Moon or the Sun, the Moon or the Sun can look like it is only a centimeter or less from the rooftop (but with the Moon or the Sun looking very small, like the size of a coin), but if I were to climb onto the roof I obviously wouldn't be able to reach the Moon or the Sun. Right Indoubtbigtime? Have you also noticed such Indoubtbigtime? Try the experiments yourself.

If I look at objects (including ones in my front yard, or anyplace on a the city block I am standing at) through my binoculars (which has a magnification of 10 times) the objects look much closer to me and much closer to each other, than they appear without me looking at them through binoculars, yet the images I see through the binoculars are not fake. Right Indoubtbigtime?

In the bottom picture (posted by TD on page 15 of this topic thread) the Earth looks much smaller than in top picture (of the same post), and that is probably mostly due to the degree of magnification. I am claiming that those pictures (made by Russia) posted by TD are not fakes, likewise for the pictures supplied by NASA showing both the Moon and the Earth. Indoubtbigtime I claim thus your £200, but since it is up to you decide if a specific picture is fake or not and since you are skeptical (or at least claim to be skeptical) of NASA's and Russia's pictures which were shown to you, I don't believe you will give me the £200.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

TonusOH, Indoubtbigtime did say to doubt everything. He/she showed us that we should consider that someone making posts on this site might be a troll.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks TD for you post in which you included a picture of the lunar lander being safely enclosed in the rocket ship, thus indicating that the lunar lander was safely enclosed while leaving the Earth's atmosphere. Days ago I had intended to point out that the lander was enclosed in the rocket ship until separating from the command module (during lunar orbit), but I hadn't yet found detailed documentation of such, until you made your post. Though it now quite obvious that Indoubtbigtime, is a troll, it is still important for other readers to see the proof that the moon landings really did happen.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, though you claim to believe the teachings of the JW religion (except in regards to the governing body's Covid-19 policy), the JW religion teaches that NASA really did land spacecraft and humans onto the surface of the moon. Perhaps you were not aware that the JW religion teaches such. The JW religion (through its Awake! magazine) teaches (though not as a religious doctrine) as an observable fact that NASA spacecraft and NASA astronauts landed onto the moon from 1969-1972. They say it on their website.

See the Awake! (g74) issue of August 22, 1974 on pages 13-16 in the article called "Whatever Happened to the Moon Trips?" (which can be read online at the preceding link). [I have that issue in a bound volume of the Awake! in my home.] It says in part the following (I added boldface for emphasis).

'ON July 20, 1969, millions of people all over the world were ‘glued’ to their television sets. They were watching an amazing accomplishment—the first man was setting foot on the moon.

As the American astronaut stepped onto the surface of the moon, he spoke of a “giant leap for mankind.” The imaginations of people everywhere were excited. Some considered this a breakthrough into space. There was talk of manned flights to other planets, even “to the stars.”

But the six moon landings by Americans ended three years later in 1972; there have been none since then.

... True, there were definite accomplishments made on the moon trips. Just getting there was one of the greatest feats in human history. Also, more information about the moon and other parts of the solar system was obtained. And some things were learned that could be applied to industrial use.

... the more than 800 pounds of moon rocks brought back from the six moon landings ....'

Though that JW article makes a number of negative and even discouraging comments about space travel, it nonetheless claims as observable definite fact that NASA spacecraft and NASA astronauts did land onto the surface of the moon, accomplishing 6 landings from 1969-1972.

In 2011 the JW religion reported said that NASA rockets crashed into the moon and that as a result NASA discovered huge amounts of water on the moon. The April 2011 issue of the Awake! in its "Watching the World" section said in part the following (I added some boldface to the article for emphasis).

'Water on the Moon

Scientists who crashed a two-stage rocket into the moon’s surface say that they detected water in the plume of dust created. The cloud was examined by spectrometers—instruments that analyze the composition of materials by isolating the wavelengths of light that they absorb or emit. “We’re unlocking the mysteries of our nearest neighbor and by extension the solar system,” stated Michael Wargo, chief lunar scientist at NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C. More recently, a moon probe revealed that there are millions of tons of water at the moon’s north pole.'

Since you say you believe the JW religion (except regarding Covid-19 vaccine policy) are you now going to accept that NASA really did land spacecraft and astronauts onto the moon? Or, are you now going to believe the JW religion and its WT organization is incorrect in teaching that it is an observable fact that NASA really did land spacecraft and astronauts onto the moon?

Most likely you are troll. If you are one, I wonder I if you will now stop being such regarding the moon landings, when posting in this forum topic.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Readers, please note the following from https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/yes-united-states-certainly-did-land-humans-moon-180972161/ .

'A radio talk show host, Rob McConnell, declared that listeners to his show The X Zone, offered astounding responses to two questions—“Do you believe in ghosts, and did American astronauts really walk on the Moon?”—77 percent of respondents said yes to belief in ghosts, and 93 percent said that they did not believe that the Moon landings had actually occurred. As Seth Shostak from the SETI Institute remarked about this, “The respondents believe in ghosts, but do not think NASA put people on the moon. On the one hand, you have uncorroborated testimony about noises in the attic. On the other, you have a decade of effort by tens of thousands of engineers and scientists, endless rocket hardware, thousands of photos, and 378 kilograms (840 pounds) of moon rock.”

Shostak was befuddled by this reality of modern American society. Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt was more philosophical. “If people decide they’re going to deny the facts of history and the facts of science and technology,” he said, “there’s not much you can do with them. For most of them, I just feel sorry that we failed in their education.”

Readers, please also see https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/moon-landing/ . It says in part the following.

'2.) Over 8,000 photos documenting our trips. Perhaps we all need a reminder of what the sacrifices were that went into our journey to the Moon. We accomplished the unthinkable by banding together to achieve a common goal, and could do it all once again. NASA has released all the photos of the twelve Apollo missions that made it to space on a publicly available Flickr photostream, sorted into a series of incredible albums by mission.

.. 4.) We brought back samples, and learned a ton about lunar geology from them. The final two astronauts to ever walk on the Moon, Gene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt, ran into quite a surprise when they did. Schmitt, the lone civilian-astronaut (and only scientist) to travel to the Moon, was often described as the most business-like of all the astronauts.

... Most remarkably, the lunar samples we’ve found indicate that the Earth and the Moon have a common origin, consistent with a giant impact that occurred only a few tens of millions of years into the birth of our Solar System. Without direct samples, obtained by the Apollo missions and brought back to Earth, we never would have been able to draw such a startling, but spectacular, conclusion.'

Readers, please also look at https://www.history.com/news/space-race-soviet-union-moon-landing-denial . It is fascinating.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

It is very bad for human society when people intentionally lie about important topics (such as NASA's space program) and when they intentionally spread what they know are lies. That is because it hinders others from knowing the truth and that hinders progress of humanity. It is important to oppose such liars and to expose them for what they are.

On a different topic, I now doubt that Indoubtbigtime is PIMO despite him/her claiming to be PIMO. In one post he/she seemed to indicate she/he still believes in the teachings of the JW religion, except he/she claims to not accept the JW governing body any longer (due to the governing body's position on the Covid-19 vaccines - so she/he says).

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

NASA's pictures of its missions to the moon are not questionable to me; I understand why they look the way they do. I plan to explain in a later post two photos (of the Earth and moon) which Indoubtbigtime included in one post. I think that Indoubtbigtime's concern about those photos pertains to the difference in the apparent relative size of the Earth and moon in one photo compared with that of the other photo.

TD, on page 12 of this topic thread Indoubtbigtime posted a picture of some junk (including tarp being attacked to the object as part of the junk) which Indoubtbigtime alluded to as being the Lunar Rover of 1969. I am sure you agree It is obvious that what is in the picture is not the lander and not in anyway an accurate depiction of the lunar rover. I think that surely Indoubtbigtime knows it is not of the rover. It is an insult to NASA (and its space program) and perhaps also intended as a joke (a cruel joke), not as something serious. [Readers, a real photo of the real lander can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Module_Eagle .] TD, the fact Indoubtbigtime did such shows (in my opinion) that we shouldn't bother communicating with him on this topic. However, since some readers might get swayed by some of this attacks of the missions to the moon, we should (at least for the time being) still disprove his claims so others won't be deceived by them. What do you think about these thoughts?

By the way for those wondering about the curved path taken by the Artemis I spacecraft, consider the following. In addition to what TD said about the missions (and prior ones) doing an Earth orbit followed by a trajectory orbit, the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Module_Eagle (which I mentioned above) says such happened for the 1969 space flight to the moon. It says the following.

"Eagle was launched with command module Columbia on July 16, 1969, atop a Saturn V launch vehicle from Launch Complex 39A, and entered Earth orbit 12 minutes later.

Eagle entered lunar orbit on July 19, 1969. On July 20, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin entered into the LM and separated it from Command module Columbia."

Readers please read the articles at the following web two pages, especially if you disbelieve there were landings onto the moon or doubt even somewhat there were landings onto the moon.

- https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2022/07/20/the_biggest_problem_with_believing_the_moon_landings_were_fake_843234.html

- https://www.iop.org/explore-physics/moon/how-do-we-know-we-went-to-the-moon

Update: TD, now Indoubtbigtime has even made a post which makes a wisecrack about the acronym of NASA (for National Aeronautics and Space Administration). Good grief. He is clearly not someone I wish talking to again about NASA's space program.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro, those verses in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and the reasoning (about the Son of man coming in the clouds after the great tribulation) you used upon them (or that which you implied) are the the same things I noticed about 23 years ago (or perhaps even earlier, in the year 1995) while I was a JW who had started doing independent study of the Bible. As a result and because I cared with what the Bible actually says where it disagrees with the WT doctrines, those observations were some of the main things which made stop accepting the WT as being authoritative on theology, and led to me becoming an independent minded Christian (several years before I later became an atheist after I found too many problems with the Bible).

13

Desperation - 3 year old Becomes UnBaptized Publisher

by Sea Breeze in

jw's seem to be getting desperate.

this three year old is paraded on a jw blog in cuenca, ecuador.

it is about 1/3 of the way down on the page.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeeze, when JW parents go out in field service they typically take their children (if they are old enough to walk) with them and they often ask the children to offer a tract or magazine to the householders. Such was the case with me going out in field service with my mother. It thus likely isn't many years before many of the children become unbaptized publishers reporting field service time.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

Disillusioned JW

World War I (originally called the Great War) did bring an end to many kingdoms (that is, governments headed by a human king), with them being replaced by democratic republics and socialist republics. The WT could (as did at least one Bible Student group, such as Layman's Home Missionary Movement) say that 1914 was the beginning of end of human monarchies (rule by a human king or queen) and that thus Russell was partly right about 1914. They could thus still claim 1914 as a marker for the beginning of the time of end, and at the same time they could stop saying that Christ began his kingdom over the Earth in 1914. [I am not saying the time of the end began then, only that they could still get away with teaching it began then.] They could thus scale back the alleged significance of 1914. Many Bible churches (including fundamentalist ones) in the USA teach that the world is in the last days even though they don't give a date as to when the last days began. The 1914 date is thus not really needed by the WT.

Furthermore, they can still claim that Jesus began favoring them in a special way starting in 1919. [I am not saying that the 1919 teaching is true, only that they could still get away with saying that Christ began favoring them in a special way in 1919 (such as helping them to: win court cases, abandon certain false doctrines, abandon certain practices, intensify their preaching work) - even if they cease to say Christ became king over Earth in 1914.]

If human society ever gets to the point where there are no more human monarchies then the WT could somewhat convincingly claim that Jesus Christ is the only king over the Earth. [I am not saying Christ is king, only that the WT could then make the claim that Jesus is the only king over the Earth.]